Signing Chart Discussion

[bathman123]

First off, I want to thank Jason for putting this together. It is a lot of work so please don't take offense to what I am about to say

I went and calculated what my salaries would be if I used the chart. While some of my RFA may have lower actual salaries, I figured that they will go up by OV which would mitigate most savings with the RFA discount. As it stands right now, my Total Salary would be $51.6M. I would be 21.6M over the cap. I know my team has a lot of good players but not so much higher than all other teams. If you had a complete team of 77 OV, your Cap Number would be $35M (and your team would suck). IF all were RFA resigns, your cap would be 20.3 (1.015M per year vs 1.75M per year - RFA vs UFA). This would only allow for 2 83+ UFA level players to be added and stay under the cap. 

Do we have a reason for the $30M amount or was that a number that sounded good?  Maybe I am just not getting this correctly but it just seems like very few teams will be under the cap to the point where I don't know if all 80+ players could be signed to any team and not have some teams go over the cap.

These are just some thoughts and I would be happy to discuss further if any of this is not clear.

[NYI - Scott]

116% for 4yrs
112% for 3yrs
110% for 2yrs
108% for 1yr.

Since we are allowed to sign 5 year deals (from the Rulebook Re-Signings and Free Agency: "Maximum Term in a Contract: 5 years"), would the multiplier be 120%??

[RedWings]

May 19, 2021 12:27:12 GMT bathman123 said:

First off, I want to thank Jason for putting this together. It is a lot of work so please don't take offense to what I am about to say

I went and calculated what my salaries would be if I used the chart. While some of my RFA may have lower actual salaries, I figured that they will go up by OV which would mitigate most savings with the RFA discount. As it stands right now, my Total Salary would be $51.6M. I would be 21.6M over the cap. I know my team has a lot of good players but not so much higher than all other teams. If you had a complete team of 77 OV, your Cap Number would be $35M (and your team would suck). IF all were RFA resigns, your cap would be 20.3 (1.015M per year vs 1.75M per year - RFA vs UFA). This would only allow for 2 83+ UFA level players to be added and stay under the cap. 

Do we have a reason for the $30M amount or was that a number that sounded good?  Maybe I am just not getting this correctly but it just seems like very few teams will be under the cap to the point where I don't know if all 80+ players could be signed to any team and not have some teams go over the cap.

These are just some thoughts and I would be happy to discuss further if any of this is not clear.

This is why I wanted to bring some numbers out! Jason had asked me, and I said lets start the discussion at 30 for cap, and see what the discussion brings. I want people involved with their opinions, and bringing things up so thanks Mike

[RedWings]

We had talked about 45 mill as a cap as well, as the league that this structure was based off has a $45 mill cap. I wanted to make some tough decisions for people so thats why i looked at a 30 mill cap. But Mike, you may be right, it might be too low.

Also keep in mind this cap will not come into place this season. I want to give people a season to make adjustments for the cap coming in, but I want the salary structure in place because i want all signings done this year based on what we do with the structure, so it falls in line with the rest.

[Big Bad Bruins]

I honestly just don't vibe with the whole set structure thing... I get that it makes life easier for whoever is negotiating the contracts but that also takes a lot of the fun out of negotiating with your players and the fun of making the cap work..

Are we seriously going to value an 82 OV player who has really good secondary stats but his core stats aren't the best (think a high DF rating defensive forward type) the same as a superstar sniper who pots 40 goals a year on a consistent basis?

I'm sorry.. I just have a hard time getting behind this method. I echo some of the concerns Mike brought up as well.

[johng]

I agree that not setting cap too high is a good ideal. With a lower cap it would definitely turn the TDL into a signature event. Rental contracts would be a hot commodity, and it would open up Free Agency too.

30M is way too low though. Instead of doing a bunch of math for every team, you could probably just look at the top teams and figure out how much pain you want to inflict. Going off Mike's math, 40m sounds like it might be more ideal, you could probably shave $ off the cap too as we settle in, or add to it.

[RedWings]

May 19, 2021 19:23:29 GMT Big Bad Bruins said:

I honestly just don't vibe with the whole set structure thing... I get that it makes life easier for whoever is negotiating the contracts but that also takes a lot of the fun out of negotiating with your players and the fun of making the cap work..

Are we seriously going to value an 82 OV player who has really good secondary stats but his core stats aren't the best (think a high DF rating defensive forward type) the same as a superstar sniper who pots 40 goals a year on a consistent basis?

I'm sorry.. I just have a hard time getting behind this method. I echo some of the concerns Mike brought up as well.

I've asked people to step up for things like this before and nobody has, other than Jason. I simply don't have time to do the player agent plus everything else so salary chart it is

[bathman123]

I think the chart is definitely doable. I think the fun of negotiating would be replaced with the Art of finding guys one point away from their OV going up one thus giving them a discount over a very similar player that is one OV higher.

I was thinking we should have additional levels past 83OV. I don't believe Franics (83ov) should be paid the same as Lemieux (91ov) Perhaps something like this:

91+ = 5.5m
89-90 = 5m
87-88 = 4.5m
85-86 = 4m
83-84 = 3.5m
82 ov = 3m
81ov = 2.75m
80ov=2.5m


I think we need to decide on a Table and then we can compute what each teams cap would be using that scale. That should allow us to come up with a more realistic cap number. I would be happy to do the math if we can decide on a pay table.

[NYI - Scott]

May 20, 2021 15:58:25 GMT bathman123 said:

I think the chart is definitely doable. I think the fun of negotiating would be replaced with the Art of finding guys one point away from their OV going up one thus giving them a discount over a very similar player that is one OV higher.

I was thinking we should have additional levels past 83OV. I don't believe Francis (83ov) should be paid the same as Lemieux (91ov) Perhaps something like this:

91+ = 5.5m
89-90 = 5m
87-88 = 4.5m
85-86 = 4m
83-84 = 3.5m
82 ov = 3m
81ov = 2.75m
80ov=2.5m


I think we need to decide on a Table and then we can compute what each teams cap would be using that scale. That should allow us to come up with a more realistic cap number. I would be happy to do the math if we can decide on a pay table.

I agree with Mike that stopping the upper limit at 83 is too low, considering there are currently:
31 players OV83-84
16 players OV85-86
12 players OV87-88
2 players OV89-90
1 player OV91
= 62 players (7.8% of the league) at OV83+

And my initial question was never answered:
116% for 4yrs, 112% for 3yrs, 110% for 2yrs, 108% for 1yr.



Since we are allowed to sign 5 year deals (from the Rulebook Re-Signings and Free Agency: "Maximum Term in a Contract: 5 years"), would the multiplier be 120%??

[jason]

May 19, 2021 13:14:30 GMT NYI - Scott said:

116% for 4yrs
112% for 3yrs
110% for 2yrs
108% for 1yr.

Since we are allowed to sign 5 year deals (from the Rulebook Re-Signings and Free Agency: "Maximum Term in a Contract: 5 years"), would the multiplier be 120%??

Yes I would say that's fair.

[jason]

May 20, 2021 15:58:25 GMT bathman123 said:

I think the chart is definitely doable. I think the fun of negotiating would be replaced with the Art of finding guys one point away from their OV going up one thus giving them a discount over a very similar player that is one OV higher.

I was thinking we should have additional levels past 83OV. I don't believe Franics (83ov) should be paid the same as Lemieux (91ov) Perhaps something like this:

91+ = 5.5m
89-90 = 5m
87-88 = 4.5m
85-86 = 4m
83-84 = 3.5m
82 ov = 3m
81ov = 2.75m
80ov=2.5m


I think we need to decide on a Table and then we can compute what each teams cap would be using that scale. That should allow us to come up with a more realistic cap number. I would be happy to do the math if we can decide on a pay table.

That's definitely something that's doable. I still think numbers are low especially if we are going to allow 5 yr deals. Teams won't be forced into hard decisions until the 3rd contract so 5yrs from now potentially.

[RedWings]

Yeah I like the idea of higher ov categories. Your right lemieux and an 83 ov shouldn't be paid the same

[Peter - Devils GM]

May 20, 2021 15:58:25 GMT bathman123 said:

I think the chart is definitely doable. I think the fun of negotiating would be replaced with the Art of finding guys one point away from their OV going up one thus giving them a discount over a very similar player that is one OV higher.

I was thinking we should have additional levels past 83OV. I don't believe Franics (83ov) should be paid the same as Lemieux (91ov) Perhaps something like this:

91+ = 5.5m
89-90 = 5m
87-88 = 4.5m
85-86 = 4m
83-84 = 3.5m
82 ov = 3m
81ov = 2.75m
80ov=2.5m


I think we need to decide on a Table and then we can compute what each teams cap would be using that scale. That should allow us to come up with a more realistic cap number. I would be happy to do the math if we can decide on a pay table.

these salaries make alot of sense and agreed that a 90ov guy shouldn't be making the same as an 83 guy.

now it's finding a cap that works, and $40-$45mil might be good

[johng]

45 cap might actually be too high now, especially considering this will take a few seasons before players reach these values.

I would not mind if you re-assessed after this offseason to see where we all stand.